Before the Messiah, Jesus, came, no one had a chance at immortality because of sin. This, then, is precisely the same punishment awaiting the unsaved at the Final Judgment. Additionally, this is the same exact word in Greek that Peter uses to talk about how Lot was vexed (tormented) in his soul while seeing the evil deeds done in his hometown. Those who consider themselves “pro-life” really need to reconsider the logic of their positions if they believe in eternal torture. they would give up their immortality) if it would save Jewish people and enable them to live forever. Moses and Paul were willing to give up their immortality, their “living forever,” for Israel to be saved. Isaiah makes it clear, we will see “carcasses” (Hebrew: pegerim = dead bodies). “If any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever.” (John 6:51). Because they still have some retention of God’s law of right and wrong in their thoughts. Many Evangelicals who hold to Conditional Immortality also hold different views on the intermediate state and this paper does not discuss the intermediate state. That was a major obstacle for me…It seems to be the only loving and just alternative. Therefore, the punishment of the sinner is not preservation in torment, but eschatological death. Our language and idioms simply are not the same as the biblical ones. The righteous “go out and look” on their enemies” corpses…They look at corpses (Hebrew: pegerim), not living people. If you believe the souls of unsaved men live forever, then which of these two statements do you believe? To the Hebrew mind, even if a man could live to be 200 years old and have 100 children, without a proper burial he would better have been stillborn (Ecclesiastes 6:3-6). He wrote in the first chapter of this 2013 book, “‘Conditional Immortality’ is the biblical belief that the ‘immortality’ of the soul is not inherent (Greek philosophers thinking) but conditional (Biblical thinking) upon receiving the gift of everlasting life through faith in Jesus (Yeshua)… God alone has immortality---anyone else becomes immortal ONLY as a result of God’s gracious gift… For centuries, church … The apostle John writes this word “proskuneo” (worship/bowing) in the Greek present tense. Obviously Jesus would not disagree with Isaiah. “Death” (Gk: thanatos) does not mean torment in Greek, Again, it is eternal punishment, not eternal punishing. During the process of their destruction the wicked will be tormented but that process will ultimately end in their eternal destruction (annihilation), [emphasis mine] which is what is signified by the use of the figure of smoke arising “forever and ever.”. While some call it Annihilationism, simply stated, Conditional Immortality is the biblical belief that the immortality of the soul is not inherent (Greek thinking) but conditional (Biblical thinking) upon receiving the gift of everlasting life through faith in Jesus (Yeshua). If the guilty man deserves to be beaten, the judge shall make him lie down and have him flogged in his presence with the number of lashes his crime deserves, but he must not give him more than forty lashes. Should not the Messiah rather have said (if eternal torment was true) that it would be better if all unbelievers had never been born! If Jesus did not suffer the full penalty for our sins, then our debt has not been paid. A simple review of a few of the texts which have this phrase will clearly show that the Traditional way of thinking of it as a statement of ceaseless pain and suffering will be unwarranted. Babu Ranganathan is a committed Reformed Baptist who holds a B.A. This is covered in – Are you saying there is no “punishment” for the unsaved? Biblically speaking, human beings are not immortal. **, Why Traditional theology is biblically wrong about the first century phrase "gnashing of teeth", Why Traditional theology is biblically wrong about the first century phrase “gnashing of teeth”, Answering the critics and supposed scriptures that teach otherwise. In saying the smoke “will rise forever,” the prophet evidently means what he goes on to describe in the rest of the chapter. Does He lack the power? We know that Edom doesn’t exist anymore. The truth is, the abundant life Jesus (Yeshua) promises us is in eternity, it is immortal life, everlasting life. If you remember nothing else … Their sentence and punishment of death will last forever. There is a gift we get from believing the gospel; it is called “everlasting life” (John 3:16). I prayed for discernment, and I have it now. Why would immortality come through the gospel if all had it from birth? What you believe about the nature of the soul will be the lens by which you view the very important question about the fate of unbelievers. Think about it, what is humanity’s greatest desire? Wright noted that 1 Timothy 6:15–16 teaches "God… alone is immortal," while in 2 Timothy 1:10 it says that immortality only comes to human beings as a gift through the gospel. Because we believe that Jesus suffered and died for us here (and that is the gospel), therefore, it is a safe assumption to believe that unbelievers who suffer terribly in this life will have that suffering count towards the payment for their sins. (on Homepage) But to state very briefly, the punishment (or wages) of sin according to scripture is always death. The only difference will be that a human judicial court can only remove the bodily life of a person as punishment. It will be destroyed. The very fact that Paul says he’s innocent of the blood of all people is a sure indication that people will actually die (not live suffering in immortality) when they suffer the second death. Humans, however, will be destroyed there. Who advocated it. When we say anything, a plant, animal or person is dead, we do not mean that plant, animal or person is alive and being tormented. They say we will get pleasure from seeing the wicked suffer, God says the exact opposite. This will be Satan’s home forever…his jail cell. They will suffer no more and no less than their sins deserve–then will be destroyed forever just as the Messiah foretold. Adherents of eternal torture hold such a low view of life, that death is not a punishment for them. In 1 Timothy 6:15-16, Paul says that God alone possesses immortality. Most people don’t realize the many problems that arise from presenting the so called Traditional position. Yet no single indication of it is discoverable in the writings of Moses. 5:22,29,30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15,33, Mark 9:43 and Luke 12:5) and almost all are in the gospel of Matthew. The same Greek word is used for both Lot and Satan being tormented. Then we will be permitted to view them. Immortality is something to be sought after (Romans 2:7) therefore it is not inherent to all humanity.[8][9]. Don’t you have to redefine “destroy” in every single one of these instances in order to get something other than “destruction” as the final fate of the unsaved? Sodom and Gomorrah are a supreme type given by Peter and he says “And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample” (2 Peter 2:6). And I’m just not at the point where I can pretend to “suspend” judgment about this. A Biblical Study on Human Nature and Destiny, Biblical Perspectives, Berrien Springs, MI 1997, p.193). Yes, the process itself will include suffering, but the end result according to the Jewish scriptures (the Bible) is destruction, death, cessation of life and thought. If “death” really means “living eternally separated” from God (and it does not), then death really will exist forever. So according to Yeshua’s (Jesus”) own words, some will have “many stripes” (Hitler types) and some will have “few stripes” (only God knows). In other words, you can’t keep on destroying something for all eternity. However, this topic is very important and the wrong answer can put up unnecessary stumbling blocks to the unsaved and even to believers. The great Inter-Varsity Press evangelical author, John R. Stott, (who also left the Traditional view) brings up a well-argued point for Conditional Immortality, when he states: “it would seem strange…if people who are said to suffer destruction are in fact not destroyed; and…it is difficult to imagine a perpetually inconclusive process of perishing.”. Absolutely not. Lewis, The Problem of Pain, London: Geoffrey Bles, 1940, p. 118). However, in Revelation 21:4 John specifically states that there will be “no more death.” Think about that for a moment or two. “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:” (Genesis 3:22). Few teachings have troubled the human conscience over the centuries more than the Traditional view of hell as the place where the lost suffer conscious punishment in body and soul for all eternity. (Deuteronomy 25:2-3). Scripture says that God has put His standards in man’s conscience and calls us to reason together with Him (Isaiah 1:18). Lament 2:16–All thine enemies have opened their mouth against thee: they hiss and gnash the teeth: they say, We have swallowed her up. How can we read about a God who says over and over again in scripture that he is “Just” and wants fairness among his people; commands an “eye for an eye and tooth for tooth” and then Himself tortures these same people mercilessly for not ten’s of years, not hundred’s of years, not million’s or years, not billion’s of years, not trillion’s of years, not eons, but eternity. The teaching of Conditional Immortality means that the soul of man is finally destroyed on the Day of Judgment–at the end of this age. No, they will be told they will miss out on the joy of being alive forever. For the New Testament is quite clear that Jesus not only died but that He died because of sin and in the place of sinners. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Whom will you believe? Again, I repeat the keen observation of that great evangelical commentator, John R. Stott, when he states: “it would seem strange…if people who are said to suffer destruction are in fact not destroyed…it is difficult to imagine a perpetually inconclusive process of perishing.”, (J. Stott and D. Edwards, Essentials: A Liberal-Evangelical Dialogue, London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1988, p. 316). A god who maintains an everlasting Auschwitz for his enemies whom he does not even allow to die.”. (Romans 2:7). It is enlightening, in the context of this study, to note that this word is used in the LXX (Septuagint) in Exodus 3:2 where Moses beholds a burning bush–“The bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was NOT consumed.” This particular bush was preserved in the fire (what the Traditionalists proclaim will happen with the wicked), yet Jesus disagrees with this doctrine. In his more than 45 years as a pastor, teacher and lecturer, Edward Fudge has written and published numerous books and articles. I somehow missed the revelation by which they know this. How many have turned away from the faith because they wrongly believed tradition and not the scriptures? The truth of God’s Word helps us see the ultimate fate of unbelievers and helps us motivate them to come to salvation today, to life, to everlasting life. I ask you, when have you ever heard a message offering immortality as part of the gospel presentation? If they did, then Paul’s statement would make no sense. Death is the absence of life. He is a member of the American Bar Association, Houston Bar Association and State Bar of Texas. Stephen’s accusers were angry with Stephen and have attacked him. “…this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:53). The language simply signifies that the torment of the wicked will lead to their permanent (or irrevocable and eternal) destruction. . How could God have warned Israel in detail about punishments in this life, droughts, plagues, and other punishments and not say one word about the most important issue of eternal torment? Therefore, how can anyone “rest day or night” when they have painful such sores on their body and are forced to worship the beast? Television evangelist, Dr. David Regan, of the Lamb & Lion Ministries (a former believer in eternal torment) also picks up on this theme on the pages of his Lamplighter magazine: My first difficulty with the Traditional view is that it seems to impugn the character of God. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. Yet, immortality through Jesus (Yeshua) alone is what the Jewish Apostle Paul preached: He (Jesus), has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. If eternal torment is true, then clearly it would have been better for most everyone not to have been born (since the majority will not be saved) (Matthew 7:14). Paul states: “For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ (Messiah) for my brethren…” (Romans 9:3). They are not used with these meaning in our everyday language. If you still doubt this, then look at what Jesus Himself clearly offers to the world: Again, “I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever.” John 6:51. 1 (1960): 92. However, do not believe for a moment that those who hold to Conditional Immortality believe there is no payment for those who have done evil in this life. Though they meant it for harm, it turned out for good. However, there will be a resurrection one day of all humanity, a bodily resurrection. ), GEORGE LEONARD GOSS, former editor, Evangelical Book Club: “A thorough and convincing exposition.”, NEW OXFORD REVIEW: “Exceptionally evenhanded, forceful and to the point.”, MISSION JOURNAL: “A formidable scriptural argument which defenders of the popular view will be hard pressed to meet.”, EVANGELICAL BOOK CLUB: “A thoughtful case for an opinion that deserves a hearing.”, RESURRECTION MAGAZINE: “The definitive work on Conditional Immortality.”, CHURCH OF ENGLAND NEWSPAPER: “Essential reading for anyone interested in the subject.”. I ask you, when have you ever heard a message offering immortality as part of the gospel presentation? Remember, Jesus Himself tells us that the fire was never made for humans, it was “prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41). It was turning them into ashes, not tormenting them for long periods of time. The phrase “conditional immortality” turns out to be a shorthand way of saying that God is God and we are not. What is the judicial underlying basis for capital punishment? In the second death, the body and soul are both destroyed (not preserved), (Matthew 10:28) forever. John W. Sanderson Jr., “Review of The Truth about Seventh-Day Adventism by Walter R. Martin,”Westminster Theological Journal 23, no. The lost clearly need to be saved from their sins. Yet all the lost will not receive same amount of suffering for their sins before they are destroyed. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.” (Luke 12: 47-48). These are people who are forced to receive the mark of the beast (Revelation 13:16). More than that, the death He died was in some true and real sense the sinner’s death,the death required by sin, the death we should have died…The Old Testament prophets spoke of “the sufferings of Christ” and the “glories that would follow” (1 Peter 1:11). They will gain life forever at the Resurrection; the rest of humanity will be destroyed and not live forever. It means that “the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom. Why? That’s all God cannot do. God has been made so cruel, and this doctrine is so unthinkable that it has probably created more atheists, and caused more weak believers to fall away than any other false teaching. Those who wrongly believe in immortality for all from birth must reinterpret the Bible to say: Are they really teaching the Bible when they corrupt it into saying the opposite of what it really says, or teaching what they want the Bible to say? Then why do believers “shut off” their God given consciences and suppress every fiber in their being which screams “Eternal conscious torture (the Traditional view of hell) really does not make sense!” The punishment does not fit the crime. No, the fire consumes them. God is pro-life!). Its duration is supposed co-existent with the period of his natural life.”, (Edward W. Fudge, The Fire That Consumes. I was in terrific fear, fighting back “God, why?” So, I prayed, “Let me understand, Lord, for I do not want to question Your righteous judgment!” But peace did not come. The future they face on judgment day is 1) suffering in proportion for their sins then 2) destruction. 1-7). Tag: conditional immortality How to escape the Bible with your theology intact. And reading the context of these verses, it can clearly be seen that “unquenchable” means a judgment that man cannot “quench” or “talk God out of.” In other words, no one can talk God out of it and it will indeed run its course. For centuries, church theologians have wrongly assumed the Greek doctrine of the immortality of all souls. Yet Jesus reserves this statement for only the most vile of sinners. Look at Capital Punishment in theory. (Edward W. Fudge, The Fire That Consumes. He also lectures on the fallacies and errors of evolution. Why the "Book of Life" is exactly that...a Book of Life, Why the “Book of Life” is exactly that…a Book of Life, Your last letter put my mind a bit more at ease about who is going to hell, but it didn’t address the problem of hell itself. Sodomites became ashes, Peter tells us the unsaved will also become ashes–not tormented forever as is erroneously taught. Evangelical author Edward Fudge gives this passage a well developed exegesis that deserves quotation here: Jesus quotes these words (Isaiah 66:24) in one of His own famous statements about final punishment (Mark 9:48), and they have formed the basis for much Christian teaching on hell ever since. They were willing to be dead forever. eternal torment) in the Old Testament. ), You said it about as forcefully as it can be said. As a general rule, conditionalism goes hand in hand with annihilationism; that is, the belief that the souls of the wicked will be destroyed in Gehenna (often translated "hell", especially by non-conditionalists and non-universalists) fire rather than suffering eternal torment. Yes, they will indeed have “no rest,” but when will this happen? This seems to indicate that even for the lost, (whom God would rather have saved, had they come to Him), it is still better to have been born and then lost to life than to never have been born at all. “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Daniel 12:2. Therefore, it is no wonder that the message of immortality has been completely dropped from modern preaching. B) They eventually became ashes meaning cremated! Evangelical Pastor Al Maxey, who after studying this now believes in Conditional Immortality, writes: Trees with bad fruit are burned (Matthew 7:19), and so are unfruitful vines (John 15:6) and useless weeds (Matthew 13:40). Also to be noted, in 1992, the (then) most recent global evangelism “Lausanne Conference” approved a revised Statement of Faith to allow for Conditional Immortality. I kept asking myself, “How could a God of grace, mercy and love torment the vast majority of humanity eternally?” It did not seem to me to be either loving or just. Notice Psalm 97:2-3 above: before stating that God will judge and destroy his enemies with consuming fire, it assuredly states that ”righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne.”. The character of God is at stake. This is a future event for John. However, those who hold to Conditional Immortality know that the lost will not gain immortality on resurrection day, but will be destroyed (cremated) only after suffering for their sins no more and no less than they specifically deserve. They would understand that this would go against the very moral fiber built into their consciences (fallen as they may be). It is important to note that in the previous verse, John wrote in the Greek future tense and refers to the Great White Throne Judgment where the lost will be tormented “in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb” on Judgment Day. In Isaiah 66:24, at one time a much quoted verse, the reference is not to the continuing personality (nephesh) of the rebels, but to their corpses. They will be destroyed. “We are told that it is a detestable doctrine and indeed, I too detest it from the bottom of my heart” (ibid. It is clear as a bell that God did not want them to live forever as sinners. Adherents of eternal torment do not believe life is precious enough to believe that removal of it is a punishment! William West states this more of these thoughts most forcefully: ADAM: God told Adam in the day he ate he would die. (John 6:51). They will indeed be tormented forever; however they are not humans. The prospect that one day a vast number of people will be consigned to the everlasting torment of hell is most disturbing and distressing to sensitive Christians. Church as consisting of people who have been “saved” from a penalty OTHER than the one the Bible declares awaits the “unsaved”! Conditionalism correctly teaches this truth from God’s Holy Word. Russel Holt Patty and me Patty Holt getting a free ride: On the Woodruff farm in Utah : HOWEVER, WE ALSO BELIEVED IN THE STANDARD Christian "Gospel" of John 3:16,17. The “wages of sin” will be the sinners” loss of life (death) at the end of the age. Something that was accursed (Gk: Anathema) was killed and cremated in the Old Testament. C.S. It does not say they will forever be conscious or in torture, but that others will forever have shame and contempt for them. Bruce. That is what Peter meant in saying that Jesus “bare our sins in His own body.” This is what is meant that Christ’s death was vicarious…To use familiar language, Jesus suffered hell for His people,the very hell they would have suffered had He not taken their place. “My mind fails to conceive a grosser misinterpretation of language then when the five or six strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying “destroy,” or “destruction,” are explained to mean maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence. In 1 Corinthians 15:53 the great Rabbi teaches that the redeemed will not become immortal until the time of their resurrection. (Did you ever consider that?) [6] While annihilationism places emphasis on the active destruction of a person, conditionalism places emphasis on a person's dependence upon God for life; the extinction of the person is thus a passive consequence of separation from God, much like natural death is a consequence of prolonged separation from food, water, and air. This immortality, or everlasting life, shall then be put on at the second coming of Christ and the resurrection of the … That is why he tells them it is eternal punishment. As an evangelist, I deal with apologetics issues all the time. Also, Edward Fudge has been recognized by both “Who’s Who in Law” and “Who’s Who in Religion.” His book on this subject is a classic read by many scholars. Strong’s word # 1860, “To repulse, an object of aversion, abhorring, contempt.” Contempt and abhorrence are the way others think about them. Both terms also make this a “loathsome” scene. If you read John’s gospel and think of the concept of immortality whenever you hear Jesus (Yeshua) speak of offering “life,” it will make complete sense. Conditional Immortality: The Case for Orthodoxy on the Doctrine of Annihilationism - Kindle edition by Tanoto, Tanwin. ), I’ve recently been reviewing our letters back and forth over the last two years, Greg, and I must say we have really come a long way!…Your response about hell really helped. The teaching of conditional immortality and destruction of the wicked is taught by . The prospect of one day seeing them agonizing in hell for all eternity can easily lead thinking Christians to say to God: “No thank you God. However, as a side note, there is sufficient reason for understanding this passage of scripture as a parable. They will not gain life. It is obvious that the unsaved have the shame emotion. Yet Paul taught no such thing because Jesus taught no such thing, not to mention the bible they taught from,the Old Testament,teaches no such thing. Did God really overlook this then? Yes, God will judge sin! Assuredly it does not. Need more proof? Should this eternal punishment and this fire be extinguished, it would in a great measure obscure the light of heaven and put an end to a great part of the happiness and glory of the blessed.”. Thus, the view of final punishment promoted by many is actually in direct opposition to the teaching of Jesus Christ. Is immortality inherent or is immortality a gift that only believers receive? So I ask, why do some Christians seem so upset if the lost are not tortured forever? thousands of Christians, including many ministers, in all the churches . Joshua 7:15 “And it shall be, that he that is taken with the accursed thing shall be burnt with fire, he and all that he hath:”, Joshua 7:25 “And Joshua said, Why hast thou troubled us? Additionally, Malachi also tells us the wicked will be turned into ashes, just as Peter stated above, “And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet.” Malachi 4:3. The line is long and impressive of those championing conditional immortality. So long as time goes on, nothing will remain at the site but the smoke of what once was Edom’s proud kingdom. Who judges her the choice is between destruction ( Josh 7:25 ) a statement is this then... Therapy and prescription medication Isaiah and spoken by Jesus ( Yeshua ) promises us is in the New?. Walvoord expressly disagrees with the process may be valid, but death declares otherwise is sufficient evidence to that! And see ashes everywhere of those championing Conditional immortality be looked at in the that. He alone offers Timothy 1:10, Romans 8:13, Galatians 6:8 ) perfect harmony when you understand the truth,., second edition, Grand Rapids, MI 1997, p.193 ) Jesus make such offer–to... 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